categories : Being Bookish
In recent weeks I’ve seen several blog posts on book snobbery. It’s an interesting conversation to both have and watch because as book lovers we get to see how people become so passionate about their preferred genres. In my opinion it really is a very subjective discussion and one more about preference than anything else.
Anyway, yesterday I was reading a very thoughtful post about this topic in which YA literature was called fluff. This isn’t a new revelation of course I’ve seen it before but it’s one that I thought I’d ask you guys your thoughts on. I’m interested to hear what everyone thinks about whether YA literature is indeed fluff or not.
If you think YA literature is fluff why do you think that? Is it because it deals with a younger (maybe less worldy) audience? Is it because some titles are quicker to read than other genre fiction? Is that even the case — can’t you read romance or mystery or other science fiction that quickly as well? Is it about language? Dialogue?
If you think YA literature isn’t fluff why is it you feel that way? Many of the same central themes (complex relationships, war, abuse, etc) fill the pages of YA literature as does other genres.
Anyway, you get the gist of the conversation I’m trying to start. It’s an interesting one to have I think and one I’m so intrigued by.
Liz B:
As I just commented to you via Twitter, I am tired of namecalling based on genre and what people read. And yes, defining an entire area of literature as “fluff” does just that.
It’s one thing to have people who don’t read much (i.e., mainstream media reports) act as if all of one genre is “fluff” (the Gossip Girl type articles).
It’s more annoying than anything else when someone who wants me to read their reviews and rely on them — to find out they go in with that bias.
November 9, 2009 at 5:42 am Liz B(Quote)
Liyana:
What’s their definition of fluff? Do they mean fluff because some YA literature aren’t as gritty, world weary or serious as their genre?
To me, YA literature isn’t fluff. Stories are still being told, stories that I can actually relate to. The majority of YA literature might be lighthearted, they might be full of imagination. Then again, there are some YA literature that deal with war, abuse, complex relationships. And those types of stories are on the rise everyday. Is it less serious and important just because it involves teenagers and young adults? I don’t think so.
Like you said, this is subjective. Whatever you call YA literature, it doesn’t discount the fact that these stories are reaching out to young adults and adults alike.
November 9, 2009 at 5:49 am Liyana(Quote)
Ash:
When I was a YA I didn’t read hardly any YA literature. I stopped when I was about fourteen. Because of this I do consider a lot of YA literature to be fluff. I think part of this is just because it’s about teenagers and directed towards teenagers so the same themes are kind of used over and over again. At the same time, there is some really great YA writing out there and the books that I did stick with and like have made a major impact on my life. I don’t think you can really call a whole genre fluff; there is fluff in every genre.
November 9, 2009 at 7:12 am Ash(Quote)
Wendy:
I don’t think YA can be called “genre fiction”, because there aren’t any genre norms for it to conform to.
YA does tend to have simpler language than adult fiction of the same stripe–the literary YA has simpler writing than literary adult, fluffy romance-type YA has marginally simpler writing than adult romance, etc. (Actually, I don’t know if there really are many YA romances that are the equivalent of adult romance paperbacks like the Harlequins and so on, since we don’t have Sweet Valley High, Sweet Dreams, etc anymore–I think the Gossip Girl books are a cut more complex than that.) This is one of the reasons I like YA; I like clear, simple writing. Maybe that could be misinterpreted into saying I like “fluff”, but there’s a difference between stylistically excellent simple writing and simplistic writing.
November 9, 2009 at 7:33 am Wendy(Quote)
Liz B:
Michelle, I agree with you about it not being a genre (tho I find myself using the term because its easy). I don’t think of YA as being simple; rather, I think it’s avoided (thus far) the overwriting and bloating I see in some adult titles (various genres).
November 9, 2009 at 7:51 am Liz B(Quote)
Liz B:
ACK, I meant WENDY. Not enough coffee fail for me.
November 9, 2009 at 7:54 am Liz B(Quote)
Stephanie:
I don’t think a blanket statement like fluff can possibly be fitting for all YA fiction. Is some YA fluff? Yes. Just like with adult fiction, some is fluff, some is not.
I’ll admit, I used to have a slight prejudice against YA. And I still sometimes feel embarassed perusing the YA section in a bookstore. But I have come to fully realize that there is a lot of YA fiction I LOVE. So I am definitely glad I overcame my own snobbery!
November 9, 2009 at 7:58 am Stephanie(Quote)
rhapsodyinbooks:
I don’t think it’s fluff because I’ve read it, and continue to read it because I think it’s good. But my husband thinks it’s fluff and I believe that is because he refuses to read it at all. I can’t imagine that once you read someone like Jacqueline Woodson or Paul Zindel or Katherine Paterson, just to name a few, that you ever think that way.
November 9, 2009 at 8:03 am rhapsodyinbooks(Quote)
Debbie:
I think it’s too general to say all YA books are fluff. Yes, I would agree some YA books are certainly fluff but there are others that definitely do not fall into that category. Some books like Willow by Julia Hoban or Wintergirls by Laurie Halse Anderson deal with some very serious issues.
I would say other genres like chick lit and romance have their share of fluff too.
November 9, 2009 at 8:08 am Debbie(Quote)
Wendy:
Liz, that’s exactly what I mean–it’s simple, but that doesn’t mean “simplistic”. I think of Hemingway and Orwell as being simple (for the most part), too.
November 9, 2009 at 8:21 am Wendy(Quote)
Michelle:
Liz – like you I struggle for a name to give YA literature so I use genre as well even though it may not be appropriate.
Liyana – Excellent questions I’m not sure what the specific definition of fluff is (though I suspect each of us has our own) but I can make some assumptions that it relates to plot, ease of reading, language and the like. Maybe a better question I could have asked would have been what is the definition of fluff.
Ash – yes I agree, there is fluff in any and every genre it is not exclusive to YA but as Liz said it’s the sweeping generalization of the “genre” as a whole being fluff that is questionable.
Wendy - I tend to lean towards the difference in writing style and language as an underlying factor between lit fic and YA lit and thus maybe why YA is more “fluffy”. But like you I also believe that simple writing doesn’t mean it is “simplistic” I tend to think it just gets to the point more quickly.
Stephanie – I’m right there with you, I was not a YA reader at all until I started my blog and now I’m almost exclusively reading it. Previously I would have questioned adults reading “children’s” literature but that is just because I really didn’t know how great it was. Now that I’ve let go of that and have embraced it I don’t feel any qualms.
Rhapsody & Debbie – Great examples of how YA lit isn’t all fluff. There are some really complex issues focused on. I think it’s just that they are looked at in different way and showcased through a different age group that sets them apart more than anything else.
November 9, 2009 at 8:38 am Michelle(Quote)
Lauren Baratz-Logsted:
Terrific post! This is a topic that’s near and dear to my heart, one I’ve written extensively on in the past, and I hope no one will mind if I add my own thoughts here from the perspective as a writer and reader. (And anyone who does mind, feel free to scroll past my windbaggy comments!)
Earlier in my career, I had several books published for adults and am very familiar with getting hit with the all-ChickLit-is-garbage bat. And in the past few years in which I’ve published several books for the YA market and even younger, I’ve gotten used to the when-will-you-write-another-real-book again questions.
The thing is, there will always be people who need to tear something else down, but wholesale dismissiveness of particular kinds of books speaks more to the insecurities of the people doing the bashing than it does to any lack in the kinds of books being discussed.
There’s a good reason why so many formerly adult-only novelists are flocking to write YA. True, for a few, they may be trying to cash in on a hot market. But I’d bet anything that the overwhelming majority do it for the reasons I do: because there is simply nothing more rewarding than creating something that speaks to the minds and hearts of people who are still at the stage where they are forming their views of the world, where they are still excited by new ideas. I once received a handwritten letter concerning Angel’s Choice in which a 14-year-old wrote that after reading the book she decided she would never let others take away her power to make her own decisions. About my most recent book, Crazy Beautiful, a 13-year-old posted a review on the School Library Journal blog saying it made her want to go out and be kind to everybody. As for The Sisters 8 series for young readers, which I created with my husband and daughter, in addition to all the terrific notes from kids, we get messages from parents and even grandparents saying their daughters/granddaughters used to hate reading and now they can’t stop reading our books. Do I still want to and enjoy writing for adults and am I grateful for the audience that enjoys those books? You bet. But nothing in my career has made me prouder than these reactions from young people.
Let the ranters rant and the haters hate. That’s their problem and their loss.
November 9, 2009 at 9:09 am Lauren Baratz-Logsted(Quote)
Liz B:
Darn, I just can’t shut up on this, can I?
I think “what is the definition of fluff” is a great question.
What I’ve seen in other areas/arguments is that when someone like me says “what about Octavian Nothing? Or Tender Morsels?” the answer is “but that’s not YA because it’s well written.”
It’s the type of circular logic that SF/F writers (and chicklit writers & other genre writers) also get; for example, a certain literary writer whose work clearly is SF/F and she (and those who like her) insist it’s not because it’s too well written to be SF/F.
November 9, 2009 at 10:01 am Liz B(Quote)
Kathy:
YA literature is too diverse to lump it all collectively and call it fluff. Certainly some of it is, but so what? I think it’s fine to read fluff if you enjoy it.
November 9, 2009 at 12:16 pm Kathy(Quote)
Amy @ My Friend Amy:
I hate for anything to be called fluff. It really really gets to me. having said that…of course YA lit isn’t fluff!
November 9, 2009 at 12:33 pm Amy @ My Friend Amy(Quote)
S. Krishna:
Great question, and I don’t think I have to contemplate too heavily about where it came from
I agree with those who have stated that it’s hard to lump a genre and brand it as “fluff.” Even chick lit, probably considered the “fluffiest” of genres, can deal with serious issues. YA is the same – there is a good amount of it that is indeed “fluff.” But there’s also a lot of it that isn’t – Beth Kephart, Suzanne Collins, Julia Hoban, Laurie Halse Anderson, and Amy Efaw are just a few authors that tackle serious and weighty issues.
I think YA tends to be simpler than adult novels, and it reads much faster, even when it’s very weighty (at least for me). But branding it “fluff” as a whole (which I’m guilty of at times, though I read a good amount of YA and enjoy it) dismisses it as a genre. (That’s not to say there isn’t fluff in YA – there is plenty of it. But the whole genre isn’t fluff.)
November 9, 2009 at 12:38 pm S. Krishna(Quote)
Chris:
I think a better question would be: Why is adult literature so tedious and self-absorbed these days? If people and writers are flocking to YA literature, maybe it’s because it has things to offer that current adult literature doesn’t, namely: energy, creativity, humor, sympathetic characters, and, most important of all, an emotional connection. Call it “fluff”, if you want. But if the alternative is cardboard, I’ll take fluff any day.
November 9, 2009 at 12:39 pm Chris(Quote)
Louise:
You can call me many things, but a book snob I’m not. My reading taste is so broad, and while I will not go as far to say that I “read everything” I am close to say that. I read from almost all genres, and I love books from the most “difficult” classics to the “fluffiest” YA.
November 9, 2009 at 12:46 pm Louise(Quote)
Rebecca Cox:
This is too funny. There is “Fluff” in every genre and as many have said, YA is not really a genre. there are YA books in every genre. I just finished reading Ruined: A Ghost Story. It is considered a YA book and I agree. The story is about high school students told in the voice of a high school girl. The writing is simpler and more straight forward than most adult books. It was a quicker read which was refreshing after a very heavy dark literary book I had just finished. I thought it was a great book and I enjoyed it. I loved the Harry Potter series. They were for all ages. I could not put them down. I stayed up all night reading one of them. I have never thought of them as YA books but I guess they are.
On the other hand, I didn’t like the Twilight series. The writing was too simplist and repetitive for me, but others loved it. In my opinion, it is just like every other book written. Not every book is for every reader. Hey, I still go back and read Shel Silverstein’s Where the Sidewalk Ends just because I love that book and my child is 25 years old.
November 9, 2009 at 12:48 pm Rebecca Cox(Quote)
Beth F:
It’s crazy to group all of YA under a single label — fluff or otherwise. Some books are fluff (ever heard of beach reading? What’s wrong with that?) and some deal with very serious issues. Some are fantasy, some are mystery. YA is not a genre, it’s a marketing idea or a target audience. That’s like saying all mysteries are cozies. I’m not particularly offended by the word “fluff,” but I am offended by the idea that all YA can be described by a single term.
November 9, 2009 at 1:04 pm Beth F(Quote)
Jaime:
I’m with Amy… I hate to see anything called “fluff”, mainly because it’s a term that’s usually used in a derogatory manner. There’s good, bad, light, and heavy in every genre.
I find that I get a little bit resentful of people who talk about how they only read literary fiction, like other genres aren’t worthy of their attention. I gladly admit that I read “trash”. I will proclaim it loudly from the mountaintop! I can enjoy a funny, fast Janet Evanovich just as much as I enjoy a detailed, complex, Pillars of the Earth or Olive Kitteridge or The Poisonwood Bible. To me, that’s what makes a well-rounded reader.
November 9, 2009 at 1:22 pm Jaime(Quote)
Trisha:
This is a fascinating topic that I have often thought about; my main question though is: Why do you think fluff is an entirely derogatory term?
I love my fluff, my guilty pleasures; I recognize that my YAL, romance novels, some SFF, and the such are not as complex and ‘literary’ as say Atlas Shrugged, Wuthering Heights, or Les Miserables. I do not think Harry Potter and Sookie Stackhouse meets the literary quality of War and Peace and Vanity Fair.
So do I think YAL is fluff? Maybe. But I just don’t see how that is a problem.
November 9, 2009 at 1:23 pm Trisha(Quote)
Kari @ Five Borough Books:
I’m pretty surprised at a generalization that calls YA “fluff.” If any genre had to be termed fluff, I would’ve guessed it to be chick-lit. My definition of fluff is a light, easy read that has nothing too serious involved in the plot or characters. To me, this is chick-lit. And that is not at all a negative thing. I often throw in a chick-lit novel amongst literary fiction just to lighten things up and make reading more fun. If an adult finds YA novels to be fluff, I feel it’s because adults are not the target audience. It’s called YA for a reason! But within the YA category, there’s definitely the serious and the not-so-serious (perhaps they could be called “fluffier” works).
There’s an audience for most everything…why the book snobbery??
November 9, 2009 at 3:04 pm Kari @ Five Borough Books(Quote)
Jackie (Farm Lane Books):
I don’t think I’d ever describe YA as fluff. If anything it tends to deal with tougher issues than the average fiction novel. In many cases the only reason that a book is classified as YA is because the central character is a teenager.
November 9, 2009 at 3:24 pm Jackie (Farm Lane Books)(Quote)
trish:
I think this is an interesting question. I don’t think you can say all YA is fluff. However, YA is written with simpler language than much literary fiction. It’s written at a lower reading level than *most* literary fiction. Simpler language, though, does not constitute fluff.
I personally prefer literary fiction for deep and profound truths. YA, for me, doesn’t hold the depth that I seek in reading. YA tends to cover issues I don’t deal with anymore, whereas literary fiction that I choose to read tends to cover issues I’m dealing with no, as an adult.
November 9, 2009 at 5:44 pm trish(Quote)
Lu:
YA is just like any other genre, there is fluff and there is non-fluff. The end.
November 9, 2009 at 6:24 pm Lu(Quote)
softdrink:
Fluff smluff.
I’d never categorize Laurie Halse Anderson as fluff. But Danielle Steele? Maybe. So it goes both ways.
Besides, as long as kids and teenagers are reading, it’s a good thing, fluff or not fluff.
November 9, 2009 at 8:23 pm softdrink(Quote)
kay:
Like some have said before me, I think you cannot group all YA into a same fluff or non-fluff category. Some are definitely “fluff, like there is in adult fiction. Some tackle some serious issues, and although they might seem simpler in execution, they aren’t fluff. I just finished reading “The Chosen One”, and I don’t think anyone would categorize it as “fluff”.
Of course, the language is often easier to read in YA novels, but I think you need to give attention to more than just that aspect of the book to categorize it.
November 9, 2009 at 8:54 pm kay(Quote)
MamaReads:
I think this about sums up my feelings….
“You have to write the book that wants to be written. And if the book will be too difficult for grown-ups, then you write it for children.”
— Madeleine L’Engle
November 10, 2009 at 4:41 pm MamaReads(Quote)
Erin W:
Wow, there’s some great discussion going on here!Personally, I don’t agree with generalizing YA as “fluff.” Yes, some YA is on the fluffier side, but there’s just as much on the other end of spectrum. In fact, in recent months, the genre has come under fire for being too gritty (I’m thinking of books like Wintergirls, for example). YA is diverse. It can be fluffy, gritty, and everything in between.
November 10, 2009 at 5:18 pm Erin W(Quote)
Lisa:
YA fluff? No way! Some of the most intense books you can read are YA and some of the fluffiest books I have read are “grown up” books.
November 13, 2009 at 8:52 pm Lisa(Quote)
Jodie:
I think YA has come a long way since I was a teenager (that’s why I’ve come back to reading it now). In terms of ideas expressed and characters created I think YA is creating very complex novels. When I read Magyck I was like really, 12 year old will know all these words, so some YA novels are utilizing advanced vocabulary? I would like to see more YA novels that are more experimental, because most use straight forward prose and narrative structures, but I don’t know if that would appeal to teen readers (maybe someone could poll teen readers). I think the straight forward prose and structure is what makes them such fast reads, which I suspect is why many people class them as fluff, because people associate fast reads with uncomplicated novels but lots of adult lit fic is fast to read (Girl Meets Boy by Ali Smith, Dance Night by Dawn Powell for a couple of examples) but in adult novels that’s called ‘effortless prose’ not ‘lite prose’.
November 27, 2009 at 9:59 am Jodie(Quote)